Andy's Thoughts

Thanks for inviting me to join in the conversation. I'm new to blogging, but here goes...

I used to read the words "They in Us that the world might believe that you sent me" and hang my head in shame over the mess we've made of the church. While I'm not completely over those feelings, I have found some real hope and joy in those words lately. Isn't it encouraging to believe that the Lord honestly intends to bring us into such an experience of Divine fellowship while we're on the earth that people would begin to believe that "Jesus really does bring people to God"?

And this is a corporate thing. He came from God to bring US INSIDE the TRINITY in our lives together, and for us to express that life on this planet. My experience as a believer bears this in a small way. I can honestly say that every step towards a more authentic experience of Christ has required or resulted in a more authentic experience of His body. I can't count the number of times I've gone to the Lord in prayer and he's changed a bad attitude I had towards another person, or felt prompted to encourage someone, etc. Just maintaining my personal fellowship with Christ in a living way has been the path that has brought me into deeper experience of body life. Although I'm still not sure about what to do about denominational fragmentation and greedy televangelists, I'm encouraged to pursue a greater experience of "They in US" by continuing the pursuit of Christ with others. It's what the Lord wants the world to see (although I'm not really sure if it's His plan for them to see it on TV.) ;-)

Andy Hayner

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I love Matt's comment "where is that exactly, because I'd sure like to go there more often." Honestly said. And how does "going there more often" into the presence of the Father and the Son, help the temple that Paul speaks of get built? I think we know the starting place for meeting God is in our Spirit where the Lord has come to dwell if we have invited him in. But our culture, our enemy and our flesh conspire together to distract us from the truth that God has opened the door to his presence for us in Christ.

We're also bombarded with the accusation that we are not good enough to be in God's presence. And even if we did want to go there, God would be waiting with a large stick ready to give us a good tongue lashing and spanking. As a sign on a church billboard put it, "Don't make me come down there...God." While funny, it sends a message that God is waiting for his opportunity to smack us good. And that's a lie.

Since God builds his holy temple among us with qualities of his heavenly life, e.g. love, joy, peace, perseverance, long suffering, patience, kindness, etc. its pretty important that we get there as often as possible. So let's keep reminding one another that the door is open, the price has been paid and that Jesus can and will build us together into the dwelling of God. I'll meet you there.

Lance Thollander

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Comment on the two passages below

I appreciate very much the eternal context in which Jonathan wrote about these passages, that our vision expands and deepens as we see the bigger picture of what God is doing. Reading these passages slowly is a great exercise for me—‘like a listening post’. I’m still surprised by the directness that Christ and Paul talk about our relation to God. I’m surprised when Christ says: “Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am”. Where is that exactly, because I’d sure like to be there more often. And I’m struck again by the bluntness of Christ’s word’s: “even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me”.

And Paul’s words, “Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord” seem so bold to me. There is no filter between us and our Lord—we are directly being built into a holy temple in the Lord. Considering Ricky Cain’s teachings on Paul’s Hebrew background, (his tireless devotion to the Law and Jewish ancestral traditions), I can imagine how excited Paul must have been to tell people they are the actual holy temple of God.

I have my ‘statement of faith’ and set of Christian beliefs, and can draw on two thousand years of Christian history, with grand cathedrals, profound culture and traditions, yet these verses always feel like a brand new revelation to me. I feel I can appreciate it for the first time all over again. It is an awesome thing to be a part of this building with you all.

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Reflection on “Two Passages”

A common thread which runs through both passages is man’s access to an increased sense of belonging that enables new possibilities. The passage from John conveys this idea through Jesus repeatedly mentioning oneness. An evolving union exists between his followers and he prays that this union will become more intimate moving towards the kind of relationship that exists between the Father and Himself. The Ephesians passage uses the language of citizenship and the metaphor of a growing temple both to illustrate a sense of progression. Mankind is moving forward, he belongs to and is a part of something. As a person lives in this truth one begins to exist as he was meant to: God enters and uses him.

Jesus prays that his followers may share a unity that is comparable with the relationship Jesus Christ and the Father share: “that they may be one, just as We are one” It becomes clear that one of Jesus’ goals concerns relationships. Relationships within the Church are to be intimate to the degree that there is intimacy between Jesus and the Father. Jesus was constantly orientated toward the father. It was His will that Jesus constantly sought to accomplish. Likewise we should be preoccupied with the Father's will but also our neighbors legitimate desires and needs before we are concerned about our own. As we become one with each other – truly sharing our lives – we can enter into Them: “that they may all be one… that they also may be in Us”

Man can cut himself off by acting as an isolated individual, however, doing so separates him in two respects. First when we do not realize the extent to which we are connected to others we cannot optimize our behavior and connections wither leaving one increasingly alone. Secondly because God created us with relationship in mind: “It is not good that the man should be alone” relationship is a fundamental aspect of our nature (Gen 2:18). When we act as if we are isolated we separate ourselves from God’s purposes and thus lose our humanity as he intended it. If we do not embrace our nature we cannot live up to our potential. Jesus fully capitalized on man’s potential by acting entirely on behalf of others. His time on earth was fully aligned with God’s will for man. What’s more Jesus enabled man to access the esteem God had for Him.

Jesus’ prayer opens the door for man to share in his glory: “The glory which You have given Me I have given to them.” This glory is largely a function of his role. Jesus was the incarnation of God the Father; he brought God’s presence to earth. If we are Jesus disciples then we must do as He did. We have changed camps and are no longer disconnected but belong with, and are a part of, something larger than ourselves. Becoming a harbinger of heaven and incarnating God’s manifest presence is what his followers are called to enter into. Ephesians 1:19 illustrates that we are not what we were before, but rather we are citizens in His Kingdom: “So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household.” As members of God’s household we are called to act accordingly. Man is called to bear His Glory. As we walk into both light and dark places our own glory will be revealed.

The temple refers to a place where God’s presence is manifest. Historically this was a building a great grandeur, however this is no longer the case. God is in and works through his people and their relationships. Ephesians 1: 20ff argues that the Spirit of God dwells in what is being built together and that the disciples of Jesus are the living stones. It is through the Spirit that dwells in us that we are being remade into something greater.

As we bind ourselves together in Christ our relationships evolve and new depth becomes possible. Jesus goes so far as to say that we will be “perfected in unity.” As we draw on Jesus’ spirit we can move forward his redemptive purposes on Earth. Jesus makes clear that one of these purposes is to love one another with a love that is not possible outside of God: “that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.” With God’s spirit and love inside of us we can pour new life into people. As people come to understand what this invitation into God’s Kingdom is, the kingdom will expand.

God came to earth to plant a seed. This seed is the reality of life and it grows in the hearts of men. As we acknowledge our nature and begin to “walk” as he intended us to, we focus on others rather then ourselves. As we awaken to Real Life we realize that we are a part of something. That something is humanity and God. He is binding together those who are awake – aware of His life and its availability – into an instrument. It is this instrument that God is using to accomplish His purposes in the world. As we are “perfected in unity” we – the Church – become more effective in facilitating His will. We are gateways into the Kingdom of Heaven and enable its reality to emerge on Earth. It is God’s Spirit and His love that make this possible. Jesus prayed that the Father would be in us even as He was in Jesus. The Church is God’s vehicle for remaking the world. He will accomplish his goal of redeeming humanity and the world by indwelling people and flowing through them. It is through us that He works and continues to reveal His Love, and in so doing he makes us Glorious.

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Kirche and Gemeinde

Thinking about Jonathan's words on the language of "church attendance" I'm reminded that German believers like Bonhoeffer had two words to talk about the church. The word "kirche" meant the building where believers gathered, while "gemeinde" meant the community of God's people. So you could go to the "kirche" but likely found your life in the fellowship of the "gemeinde." It would be helpful for us to have such a distinction. We have pretty much enshrined the idea that church is a building where we go to worship as opposed to something dynamic that happens when we hang out with God's people and Jesus Christ shows up. Can that happen in a building? Sure. But it also happens when Christ who is the river of life in us bubbles up in our non "kirche" times with believers. So, here's to more gemeinde.

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